Comments on: Do Salt-Free Water Softeners Really Work? http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/do-salt-free-water-softeners-really-work/ Answers to questions about problem water, reverse osmosis, filtration and water softening Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:29:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Edith http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/do-salt-free-water-softeners-really-work/comment-page-7/#comment-2127 Edith Sun, 25 Jul 2010 19:08:15 +0000 http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/25/salt-free-water-softeners/#comment-2127 I bought a non salt water softener, Excalibur of Barrie Ontario. it was not called a conditioner. It was sold to me by Brian Nogler.. PURE WATER AND AIR SOLUTIONS. I was guaranteed to have my money refunded if it did not live up to manufacturers specification. He returned every month to check and see how it was working. IT DID NOT WORK!! I repeatedly asked to have it removed which was not done. So the Excalibur softener and the company, both are not any good. I bought a non salt water softener, Excalibur of Barrie Ontario. it was not called a conditioner. It was sold to me by Brian Nogler.. PURE WATER AND AIR SOLUTIONS. I was guaranteed to have my money refunded if it did not live up to manufacturers specification. He returned every month to check and see how it was working. IT DID NOT WORK!! I repeatedly asked to have it removed which was not done. So the Excalibur softener and the company, both are not any good.

]]> By: Angel http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/do-salt-free-water-softeners-really-work/comment-page-7/#comment-2124 Angel Sun, 25 Jul 2010 13:38:05 +0000 http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/25/salt-free-water-softeners/#comment-2124 Shopping around for salt-less systems and found Pelican NaturSoft System has been tested and fulfilled the requirements of the W512. I pulled this statement off there website, what do you think between Pelician and USwatersystems? Shopping around for salt-less systems and found Pelican NaturSoft System has been tested and fulfilled the requirements of the W512. I pulled this statement off there website, what do you think between Pelician and USwatersystems?

]]> By: mark http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/do-salt-free-water-softeners-really-work/comment-page-7/#comment-2080 mark Tue, 29 Jun 2010 20:55:53 +0000 http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/25/salt-free-water-softeners/#comment-2080 Ruth, We have found that the electronic systems are generally "scams." I have tested them all and have not found one good enough to sell. This does work: http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/categories/Salt-Free-Systems/ Ruth,

We have found that the electronic systems are generally “scams.” I have tested them all and have not found one good enough to sell.

This does work:

http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/categories/Salt-Free-Systems/

]]> By: Michael http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/do-salt-free-water-softeners-really-work/comment-page-7/#comment-2072 Michael Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:45:19 +0000 http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/25/salt-free-water-softeners/#comment-2072 For those still wondering about devices based on nano-crystals, (or saltless water conditioners) I finally got an somewhat interesting response from a seller of such products. Since our conversation was in German here is a machine translation: "In the formation and growth of crystals of a substance is a phase transition from the dissolved (liquid) instead of the solid state. This crystallization can occur only if the solution is saturated or supersaturated easy. On the surface of the anti-lime granules is effected by corresponding surface forces, a local supersaturation of calcium and carbonate ions. Through this supersaturation leads to the formation of calcium carbonate crystals (lime). Before we added the anti-lime granules in our product range, we have so treated water was filtered through a filter with 0.2 micron pore refinement. In measuring the total hardness before and after the anti-lime granules, we have a reduction of total hardness (lime) of about 10 - found 15% (there were several series of tests performed). That is, a part of the dissolved lime is converted into the solid phase (crystals), so that this part could be filtered off. The main part remains dissolved in the water. If there is further deposits of limestone, for example, by heating the water, we find this separation preferred instead to the seed crystals, so that will be protected, for example, heating elements of flushing or washing machine. Whether this theoretical model of explanation is in all questions of detail 100% scientifically proven strength, we do not know. Through the experiment conducted by us us, however, appeared plausible. Our past experience and the feedback of customers have also confirmed." I am still waiting for independent scientists in this particular field to publish their findings. With regards, Michael <strong>The Water Doctor Replied: Still no definitive answers. Just more questions.</strong> For those still wondering about devices based on nano-crystals, (or
saltless water conditioners) I finally got an somewhat interesting
response from a seller of such products. Since our conversation was
in German here is a machine translation:

“In the formation and growth of crystals of a substance is a phase transition from the dissolved (liquid) instead of the solid state. This crystallization can occur only if the solution is saturated or supersaturated easy. On the surface of the anti-lime granules is effected by corresponding surface forces, a local supersaturation of calcium and carbonate ions. Through this supersaturation leads to the formation of calcium carbonate crystals (lime).

Before we added the anti-lime granules in our product range, we have so treated water was filtered through a filter with 0.2 micron pore refinement. In measuring the total hardness before and after the anti-lime granules, we have a reduction of total hardness (lime) of about 10 – found 15% (there were several series of tests performed). That is, a part of the dissolved lime is converted into the solid phase (crystals), so that this part could be filtered off. The main part remains dissolved in the water. If there is further deposits of limestone, for example, by heating the water, we find this separation preferred instead to the seed crystals, so that will be protected, for example, heating elements of flushing or washing machine.

Whether this theoretical model of explanation is in all questions of detail 100% scientifically proven strength, we do not know. Through the experiment conducted by us us, however, appeared plausible. Our past experience and the feedback of customers have also confirmed.”

I am still waiting for independent scientists in this particular field to publish their findings.

With regards, Michael

The Water Doctor Replied:

Still no definitive answers. Just more questions.

]]> By: Dean http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/do-salt-free-water-softeners-really-work/comment-page-7/#comment-2069 Dean Sun, 06 Jun 2010 22:38:49 +0000 http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/25/salt-free-water-softeners/#comment-2069 Hey Mark, I read this thread with great interest, and I thank you and all the others for a lot of good information and comment. I have done some of the research you have suggested, and find that everything you say is right on target. Out city water is very hard, and contains some chlorine. I want to be able to drink the water out of every faucet in my home, and am not too concerned about it being hard. From what I gleen from my reading of this thread, I should simply get a good filtration system, that takes out the chlorine and other VOC material....and possibly a salt-free "conditioner" that WORKS! :) Am I on target? I would appreciate your opinion on which systems work the best...also! Thanks for the time you take to educate folks, Dean <strong>The Water Doctor Replied: </strong> Dean, Your are correct. Sorry it took me so long to respond. I have just been swamped (which is good). Here’s a suggestion: <a href="http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/categories/Salt-Free-Systems/" rel="nofollow">http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/categories/Salt-Free-Systems/ </a> For Drinking water: <a href="http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/Kwik%252dChange%252d3-Under-Counter-Drinking-Water-Unit.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/Kwik%252dChange%252d3-Under-Counter-Drinking-Water-Unit.html </a> Hey Mark,

I read this thread with great interest, and I thank you and all the others for a lot of good information and comment.

I have done some of the research you have suggested, and find that everything you say is right on target.

Out city water is very hard, and contains some chlorine. I want to be able to drink the water out of every faucet in my home, and am not too concerned about it being hard.

From what I gleen from my reading of this thread, I should simply get a good filtration system, that takes out the chlorine and other VOC material….and possibly a salt-free “conditioner” that WORKS! :) Am I on target?

I would appreciate your opinion on which systems work the best…also!

Thanks for the time you take to educate folks,

Dean

The Water Doctor Replied:

Dean,

Your are correct. Sorry it took me so long to respond. I have just been swamped (which is good).

Here’s a suggestion:

http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/categories/Salt-Free-Systems/

For Drinking water:

http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/Kwik%252dChange%252d3-Under-Counter-Drinking-Water-Unit.html

]]> By: jim http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/do-salt-free-water-softeners-really-work/comment-page-7/#comment-2063 jim Wed, 26 May 2010 10:41:09 +0000 http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/25/salt-free-water-softeners/#comment-2063 I have been wanting to get a water conditioner for my home and someone told me about this product that can be found on this web site www.equinox-products.com but does it work and has anyone ever used this product or is it a gimmick.. I have been wanting to get a water conditioner for my home and someone told me about this product that can be found on this web site http://www.equinox-products.com but does it work and has anyone ever used this product or is it a gimmick..

]]> By: Bill http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/do-salt-free-water-softeners-really-work/comment-page-7/#comment-2060 Bill Sun, 23 May 2010 00:34:12 +0000 http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/25/salt-free-water-softeners/#comment-2060 I've enjoyingly read through all these comments. I've been selling electronic de-scalers for seven years and never had one returned. I've seen faucet screens and garden hose spray nozzles plug up with scale after installing a de-scaler. I have installed units for customers that doubted if they worked and told them to pay when/if they were satisfied. Every one of them came into my store and paid me. You might want to check out: http://www.h2oconcepts.com/pdf/IAPMO.pdf I don't know your opinion of IAPMO, but I believe they are a very reliable testing lab. By the way, I sell TAC these days and have a good opinion of this technology. The world is changing and water softeners are bad. The WQA is losing their war. The "Hey Culligan man!!" is dead. So is Servisoft (I worked for them during college). I manufacture aerobic treatment plants and water softeners are bad for them too. A Fusion will void the warranty. Water softener's days are numbered. <strong>The Water Doctor Replied: OK, I'll bite. Sodium is undesirable, in a vacuum, but we don't live in a vacuum and oftentimes when we try and solve one problem, we create another. If sodium is undesirable, then what about the additional 50-60% more soap, phosphates, detergents, bleach, water conditioners and chemicals you have to use without softened water? What about Lime-Away? Are you saying that sodium is bad, but that's not?</strong> I’ve enjoyingly read through all these comments. I’ve been selling electronic de-scalers for seven years and never had one returned. I’ve seen faucet screens and garden hose spray nozzles plug up with scale after installing a de-scaler. I have installed units for customers that doubted if they worked and told them to pay when/if they were satisfied. Every one of them came into my store and paid me. You might want to check out: http://www.h2oconcepts.com/pdf/IAPMO.pdf I don’t know your opinion of IAPMO, but I believe they are a very reliable testing lab. By the way, I sell TAC these days and have a good opinion of this technology.
The world is changing and water softeners are bad. The WQA is losing their war. The “Hey Culligan man!!” is dead. So is Servisoft (I worked for them during college). I manufacture aerobic treatment plants and water softeners are bad for them too. A Fusion will void the warranty. Water softener’s days are numbered.

The Water Doctor Replied:

OK, I’ll bite. Sodium is undesirable, in a vacuum, but we don’t live in a vacuum and oftentimes when we try and solve one problem, we create another. If sodium is undesirable, then what about the additional 50-60% more soap, phosphates, detergents, bleach, water conditioners and chemicals you have to use without softened water? What about Lime-Away? Are you saying that sodium is bad, but that’s not?

]]> By: mark http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/do-salt-free-water-softeners-really-work/comment-page-7/#comment-2048 mark Mon, 10 May 2010 02:42:29 +0000 http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/25/salt-free-water-softeners/#comment-2048 <strong>The Water Doctor replied: It happens every day – I am for people making a fair profit, but that is insane.</strong> The Water Doctor replied:
It happens every day – I am for people making a fair profit, but that is insane.

]]> By: mark http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/do-salt-free-water-softeners-really-work/comment-page-7/#comment-2047 mark Mon, 10 May 2010 02:41:43 +0000 http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/25/salt-free-water-softeners/#comment-2047 <strong>The Water Doctor Replied: Joanna, In our industry we call Kenmore “throw-away” water softeners, because after 3 or 4 years it costs more to fix it than a new one, so you “throw it away” and get a new one. You will have much better quality with a professional grade softener like this: http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/categories/Water-Softeners/Fusion-Professional-Water-Softeners/ </strong> The Water Doctor Replied:

Joanna,

In our industry we call Kenmore “throw-away” water softeners, because after 3 or 4 years it costs more to fix it than a new one, so you “throw it away” and get a new one.
You will have much better quality with a professional grade softener like this:

http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/categories/Water-Softeners/Fusion-Professional-Water-Softeners/

]]> By: mark http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/do-salt-free-water-softeners-really-work/comment-page-7/#comment-2046 mark Mon, 10 May 2010 02:40:44 +0000 http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/25/salt-free-water-softeners/#comment-2046 The Water Doctor Replied: Dan, Small amounts of salt will not be detrimental to your septic system, which is why I recommend a system like the Fusion which keeps salt and water usage to a minimum: http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/categories/Water-Softeners/Fusion-Professional-Water-Softeners/ The Water Doctor Replied:

Dan,

Small amounts of salt will not be detrimental to your septic system, which is why I recommend a system like the Fusion which keeps salt and water usage to a minimum:

http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/categories/Water-Softeners/Fusion-Professional-Water-Softeners/

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