I talk to many people each day, inside and outside the water industry, and the claims by many companies who are trying to sell salt-free, saltless or no-salt (call them what you will) are really confusing. Many are also not rooted in fact. I try to keep an open mind and I am receptive to new and improved technology, but it first has to pass the “smell” test. Devices that “cure” a plethora of water problems and “one size fits all” are dead give-aways to false claims. Let the buyer beware. Frankly, most do not do what they say. However, there is no reason to be confused. The German Technical and Scientific Association for Gas and Water (DVGW) has developed protocol for testing scale prevention properties of these types of devices. This testing protocol is called DVGW Standard W 512.
In order to be certified by this agency, a device must reach the threshold of being at least 80% efficient. There are several devices throughout the world which are certified as being at least 80% efficient, but to my knowledge, there is only one such device in the USA that achieves this level of efficiency, that being nextScaleStop manufactured by next Filtration Technologies, Inc. of Incline Village, Nevada and that is the product we handle. W sell it under the brand name “Green Wave.”
Remember this: Only a salt-based water softener “softens” water. If you like the “slick” feeling of soft water, you won’t like salt-free systems . Systems that really work without salt, “condition” the water by preventing it from sticking to any surface and one more thing that I think should be done that no magnetic or electronic water conditioning device can do, is to remove or reduce the hazardous chemicals like chlorine, THM’s, PCB’s, pesticides, tastes and odors – while leaving the beneficial minerals. This would be the “greenest” system on the market!
I would not be comfortable selling a product that wasn’t nearly 100% efficient at reducing scale and had the certification to prove it! No electronic or electro-magnetic process does that, but there is a process called Template Assisted Crystallization that does.
This would be a good time to review some blogs and discussions about salt free-systems. Here are some links:
http://www.waternet.com/detail.asp?Parent_ID=137072#137072
http://www.waternet.com/detail.asp?Parent_ID=135334#135334
http://watertechonline.com/detail.asp?Parent_ID=137161#137161
PDF’s:
no-salt-soft-factfiction-or-fantasy
http://www.wefixbadwater.com/pdf/Scale%20Stop%20Science%20SF.pdf
To date, the only Salt-Free System in the USA that has passed the Stringent German Standard (DVGW-W512) is nextScaleStop media, used in Watts One-Flow and US WATER’s GreenWave systems.
Here’s a copy of their certification:
http://www.wefixbadwater.com/pdf/DVGW%20report.pdf
Q. Do salt-free water softeners really work? – David M., Greenville, Ohio
A. Well, I am going to have to assume that you are referring to electronic, magnetic or media devices that are purported to “condition” water. Notice, I did not say “soften” water. In my opinion, the only way you can “soften” water is by removing a “hard mineral” (calcium, magnesium) and replacing it with a “soft mineral” (sodium, potassium). Conditioning can be accomplished in a number of ways:
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Filtration – by removing sediment, silt and other contaminants the water is boing “conditioned.”
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Carbon Filtration – by passing the water through a media containing carbon to remove chemicals and chlorine.
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Seed Crystalization – by using either electrical current, magnetic or media crystalization to form “seed crystals.”
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Oxidation – by using chlorine, potassium permanagante, hrdrogen peroxide, ozone or oxygen to oxidize contaminants in the water.
Filtration, carbon filtration and oxidation are well-established methods of conditioning or treating water, so I will further assume that you are referring to the plethora of companies who are promoting “salt-free water conditioners.” I will say that there is some validity to most of these methods, however companies or websites who say that they “soften” water without salt or make other prespoterous claims like “salt can be absorbed through the skin” or that electronic devices increase sudzing are not dealing in reality and should not be trusted. I always refer people to The BunkHouse – Gallery of water-Related Pseudoscience – Junk Science in the Marketplace - Check it out! While there are some fine products in this category of “water conditioning,” there are also plenty of outright frauds and other companies selling products which have limited validity and application.
How do you tell the difference? There’s the rub… I can rely on my 36 plus years in the water conditioning industry and tell you that while I have always felt that electronic or magnetic water conditioning has some validity, no one can truly articulate or prove how. There is a protocal for testing and validating these types of water treatment devices and to date, no ecectronic or magnetic device in the United States has passed that certification. By the way, to be certified, the developer of ths protocal, called DVGW-12, has established that in order to meet the requirements, the device must be at least 80% efficient in preventing scale. Ask to see the certification of any device which claims to condition the water by any mechanical, electronic or magnetic means. To date, I know of no magnetic or electronic device that mets that criteria in the USA. My guess is that it means they cannot meet that minimum threshold of 80% efficiency in preventing scale. I never cease to be amazed by the claims that many of these companies make. Most of their claims have little basis in reality.
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I use well water. I was going to use an EWS system followed by a water softener.
What is the harm in drinking water that has gone though a salt softening process. I do not want to put in an RO system. Thank you
The Water Doctor Replied:
Joanne,
Have you had your water tested?
What type of EWS system were you planning on using?
Is it a carbon filter?
What are you trying to accomplish?
These are all things I would need to know before I can comment.
Insofar as drinking water that has been softened, I think it tastes funky, but that’s just me. How much sodium you put into your water depends upon what the hardness content is in your raw water. Again, what is your hardness?
Do you have iron? Manganese? Sulfur? E-Coli?
It sounds like you are ready to spend some money – make sure you spend it wisely and get a detailed water analysis before you do anything.
Here’s a link:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/NTL-Watercheck-Test-Kit.html
If you plan to spend hundreds or thousands on a water treatment system, you really need an X-Ray of your water – the water analysis does that.
By the way, there are many EWS systems I WOULD NOT recommend for soft water.
LaPure is assuring me that my well water can be purified by their no-salt New Generation system. My well water has 130 grams per gallon of calcium; a ph of 7 and total dissolved solids of 2,000 pp million.
Is it reasonable for me to purchase this system for $2495, plus $200 for equipment that will give the “slick” feeling to the water.
I am a widow with no one to ask about this.
Thank you,
Sandra Brooks
I just moved to a community with very hard water. The home I moved into does not have a water softener. I noticed that my dishes are not clean after cycling through my dishwasher. I also noticed that my silverware is turning black. I want a water softener that works! I’ve read about the saltless softeners but I’ve read that they don’t really work. I have border line high blood pressure so salt-based softeners scare me. What do you recommend?
Sandra,
I see all kind of “RED FLAGS” about this. NO, they will not purify your water for that amount of money. I will be glad to help you (not sell you). Call me at 800-608-8792. Ask for Mark…
Rich,
I don’t have enough information, but even if you have soft water you don’t have to drink it!
Tell me more about your water.
You say Green Wave is the only system to have the W512 certification.
Pelican water systems state they have achieved that desigination as well.
Nela,
The Green Wave uses media which was certified when it was first made. Subsequent to that the media has been upgraded and improved, but has not been re-certified.
I have had customers send me Pelican’s “alleged certification” as well and it has about 1/20 of the documentation of our original media. I smell a rat ,or to put it a different way: I have not seen anything that leads me to belive that statement. I NEED TO SEE PROOF!
I live in a neighborhood with very hard water. The dishes in the dish washer are left with spots and are not fully clean, and our cars horribly water spotted from our sprinklers. Does anyone have advise for me? I need a water softener system but don’t know what would work best for my situation. Do they have any that work for sprinklers.
Any advise would help
thanks
Tyler
Water Doctor,
Which salt-free water system do you recommend for someone who wants an earth friendly and environmentally safe system? Thanks in advance for your suggestions. Could you post a link to the product for us as well?
Kory
Tyler,
Two different issues here – the dishwasher problem can be easily fixed with a standard water softener, however, the salt added to the water would not be great for your grass. You could use potassium chlorine instead, but that is very expensive. The salt-free systems will not remove anything from the water, so while your spots on your cars may wipe off easilly, they would still be there. In my mind, a water softener with potassium chloride is the best way.
Kory, Here’s what I recommend and sell:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/categories/Salt-Free-Systems/GreenWave-Salt%252dFree-Systems/
There are four models to choose from
I was going to buy Easy Water, but after reading all of this I am not confused. What is the best system to use? I have well water that is extremely hard. I need it softened. The last salt water conditioner I had used so much salt it ran my well dry just processing it. I am under construction and need a system right away before I begin installing dishwasher, washing machine, etc. The hard water eats the finish right off of metal and I don’t want it destroying my new appliances
PS I have sulfer and iron in the water also
Jennifer,
You need to get a complete water analysis. The Easy Water won’t work on well water with iron and sulfur according to the company.
Before you do anything, get this test:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/NTL-Watercheck-Test-Kit.html
We have water supplied to us from the city from a well source close by. This water is very heavy in calcium (we think) We get light green build up of minerals everywhere and quickly. This is a problem everywhere in the neighborhood. What method do you think is best to prevent build up of deposits in appliances? We have a RO system for drinking water but I want to protect my pipes, water heater, and appliances. These “salt free” systems sound perfect. If they work…
Bob,
The “green” could be an issue. Before you do anything, I would advise that you get a detailed water analysis. Here’s a good one:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/shop/products/NTL-Watercheck-Test-Kit.html
Hello,
Can someone point me to a link for the DVGW Standard W 512? I searched on their web site and couldn’t find it.
Thank you,
Eugen
Eugen,
You won’t find it – I will address it very soon on a new blog post – watch for it.
I have been in the water filter business for over 30 years, and my experience with electronic and magnet (salt free) system will not
reduce the hardness from your water. I buy my equipment from every major water supplier in the usa and not one dealer sells these salt free systems, simply because they do not work, for what you would spend for a salt free system you could get a good water softener
that will last 10 to 15 plus years if maintained correctly.
I had a customer on a well, he called a electronic scale removal
compoany and ask about their systems, I talked him out of buying an electronic systems and sold him a water soft. He major problem was, when he heated the water it would make small calicum rocks, about two weeks later he called and said his water softener was not working, it took about a week before I could get back to check his water softener for a problem. During that time he purchased an electronic system from the company he first talked to. I checked the water hardness with the softener and the electronic systems that had been installed- the results were the same hardness I had checked before both systems were installed, both systems were not removing the hardness. I checked the water softener and found a small venturi was blocked, which caused the softener not to work.
after I fixed the softener the water hardness was removed. I bypassed the water softener after the repair just to see how the electronic water system was working and the hardness came back to the same hardness it was before either system was installed, indicating the electroic system did not remove any amount of hardness. another problem occurs with hardness in the majority of cases is the problem of iron. hardness and iron are found together.
electronic systems would not remove the iron problem and in some case might cause the water to turn brown or red .
Ron Turner
1 800 705 9383
Hey Mark,
Im going to start to work with a company called Hanish Water. They also claim to have the greenest system in the world. Can you please confirm their statements or products. Im planning to start a large business project with them and its quite urgent.
Thanks.
Ibrahim,
I am aware of Hanish Water. It seems to me that they don’t want anyone to really know much about their product and/or methodology. That concerns me. I do know that they were in some type of arrangement with nextScaleStop, but evidently aren’t any longer. I can make no recommendations except to say that this industry needs regulation.