Do Salt-Free Water Softeners Really Work?
I talk to many people each day, inside and outside the water industry, and the claims by many companies who are trying to sell salt-free, saltless or no-salt (call them what you will) are really confusing. Many are also not rooted in fact. I try to keep an open mind and I am receptive to new and improved technology, but it first has to pass the “smell” test. Devices that “cure” a plethora of water problems and “one size fits all” are dead give-aways to false claims. Let the buyer beware. Frankly, most do not do what they say. However, there is no reason to be confused. The German Technical and Scientific Association for Gas and Water (DVGW) has developed protocol for testing scale prevention properties of these types of devices. This testing protocol is called DVGW Standard W 512.
In order to be certified by this agency, a device must reach the threshold of being at least 80% efficient. There are several devices throughout the world which are certified as being at least 80% efficient, but to my knowledge, there is only one such device in the USA that achieves this level of efficiency, that being nextScaleStop manufactured by next Filtration Technologies, Inc. of Incline Village, Nevada and that is the product we handle.
Remember this: Only a salt-based water softener “softens” water. If you like the “slick” feeling of soft water, you won’t like salt-free systems . Systems that really work without salt, “condition” the water by preventing it from sticking to any surface and one more thing that I think should be done that no magnetic or electronic water conditioning device can do, is to remove or reduce the hazardous chemicals like chlorine, THM’s, PCB’s, pesticides, tastes and odors – while leaving the beneficial minerals. This would be the “greenest” system on the market!
I would not be comfortable selling a product that wasn’t nearly 100% efficient at reducing scale and had the certification to prove it! No electronic or electro-magnetic process does that, but there is a process called Template Assisted Crystallization that does.
This would be a good time to review some blogs and discussions about salt free-systems. Here are some links:
http://www.waternet.com/detail.asp?Parent_ID=137072#137072
http://www.waternet.com/detail.asp?Parent_ID=135334#135334
http://watertechonline.com/detail.asp?Parent_ID=137161#137161
PDF’s:
no-salt-soft-factfiction-or-fantasy
http://www.wefixbadwater.com/pdf/Scale%20Stop%20Science%20SF.pdf
To date, the only Salt-Free System in the USA that has passed the Stringent German Standard (DVGW-W512) is nextScaleStop media, used in Watts One-Flow and US WATER’s GreenWave systems.
Here’s a copy of their certification:
http://www.wefixbadwater.com/pdf/DVGW%20report.pdf
Q. Do salt-free water softeners really work? - David M., Greenville, Ohio
A. Well, I am going to have to assume that you are referring to electronic, magnetic or media devices that are purported to “condition” water. Notice, I did not say “soften” water. In my opinion, the only way you can “soften” water is by removing a “hard mineral” (calcium, magnesium) and replacing it with a “soft mineral” (sodium, potassium). Conditioning can be accomplished in a number of ways:
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Filtration - by removing sediment, silt and other contaminants the water is boing “conditioned.”
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Carbon Filtration - by passing the water through a media containing carbon to remove chemicals and chlorine.
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Seed Crystalization - by using either electrical current, magnetic or media crystalization to form “seed crystals.”
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Oxidation - by using chlorine, potassium permanagante, hrdrogen peroxide, ozone or oxygen to oxidize contaminants in the water.
Filtration, carbon filtration and oxidation are well-established methods of conditioning or treating water, so I will further assume that you are referring to the plethora of companies who are promoting “salt-free water conditioners.” I will say that there is some validity to most of these methods, however companies or websites who say that they “soften” water without salt or make other prespoterous claims like “salt can be absorbed through the skin” or that electronic devices increase sudzing are not dealing in reality and should not be trusted. I always refer people to The BunkHouse - Gallery of water-Related Pseudoscience - Junk Science in the Marketplace - Check it out! While there are some fine products in this category of “water conditioning,” there are also plenty of outright frauds and other companies selling products which have limited validity and application.
How do you tell the difference? There’s the rub… I can rely on my 36 plus years in the water conditioning industry and tell you that while I have always felt that electronic or magnetic water conditioning has some validity, no one can truly articulate or prove how. There is a protocal for testing and validating these types of water treatment devices and to date, no ecectronic or magnetic device in the United States has passed that certification. By the way, to be certified, the developer of ths protocal, called DVGW-12, has established that in order to meet the requirements, the device must be at least 80% efficient in preventing scale. Ask to see the certification of any device which claims to condition the water by any mechanical, electronic or magnetic means. To date, I know of no magnetic or electronic device that mets that criteria in the USA. My guess is that it means they cannot meet that minimum threshold of 80% efficiency in preventing scale. I never cease to be amazed by the claims that many of these companies make. Most of their claims have little basis in reality.
I did not see this technology addressed in your data. Is this something new or just another waste of money?
Template Assisted Crystallization (TAC) Technology - the First Chemical-Free Scale Prevention Method
Automatic Backwashing (every 14 days) Carbon Filter with KDF-55 for Extended Carbon Life & Most Efficient Operation
Softens up to 85 GPG
Lifetime Warranty
Unlike the magnetic or electronic devices on the market today, the US Water/Next Scale Stop Salt-Free system really works and is backed with the Best Warranty in the Business and a 90 day Money-Back Guarantee. You have nothing to lose! Don’t confuse this with the magnetic or electronic systems which can’t come close to our performance! Systems that use “copycat medias” cannot come close to what our system does. They have to “rest” every few hours and are out of the question, especially in commercial applications. The GoGreen TAC technology has been tested under rigorous protocols by an independent lab to be over 99.6% efficient – most other companies have failed to submit to any testing whatsoever. You probably know why.
The Science Behind
We have tested many scale prevention devices and any device that uses TAC (Template Assisted Crystallization) technology work exceptionally well at preventing scale. As a matter of fact, they are the only device tested and certifed as being efficient in preventing scale (they were tested at 99.6% efficient). I recommend them to anyone who wants to go Salt Free.
I was looking for a “No-Salt” alternative to my regular salt added softener when I cam upon your site. I have a quick question for you; I am having problems with rust around the little holes in my clothes washer and the racks in my dishwasher keep rusting also. Is this due to my using too much salt and having the setting too high?
Thank you for any help you can give me.
Salt won’t do that. Do you have rust (iron) in your water or is the washer and dishwasher older?
I’m getting mixed messages from your page. I followed the Bunkhouse link you provided above, and it trashes Template Assisted Crystallization. Yet you say that you’ve tested devices that claim to use that technology, and you’ve found them to be effective.
Can you clear up my confusion? Is the Bunkhouse site wrong about TAC, or is it actually not as effective as your comment above suggests?
I’m hoping for a definitive answer, because my softener seems to be dying, and I’d love to be able to believe the claims made for TAC.
If TAC is actually a good substitute for salt sytems, are there any brands you’ve found to be especially good?
Thanks!
Hilary,
The part on TAC was recently added. I didn’t know it was there and I do disagree with it. He obviously doesn’t understand the technology because he includes other technologies in with TAC. nextScaleStop is the only company with TAC, and it has been CERTIFIED as being 99.6% efficient. I also have seen it’s efficiency in hundreds of applications. It is not the “Black Box” that solves all water problems, but properly applied, it is what it says it is. The other products he mentions are not even close in function to TAC.
That was exactly the sort of unambiguous answer I was hoping for - very helpful. The endorsement of TAC is a pleasant bonus. Thank you!
No, the washing achine is new and so are the racks in the dishwasher.
Mark,
I’ve read about the TAC technology and am confident that it is effective in preventing scale. However, nextScaleStop claims that TAC treated water reduces soap usage with cleaner clothes in the laundry and reduced soap usage and less spotting in the diswasher. Has that been your experience or do you know of any testing that would support those claims?
Thanks!
I don’t believe it is the soft water causing this. I would need more info..
Greg,
Some customers says it does reduce soap usage. Others say not. I think that it may improve it slightly, but I doubt it really reduces soap usage like a salt-based water softner.
i have a 1500sq ft home 2 bath and 5 person. need to soft the water. im at a lose here dn’t know what brand or what type. and i dn’t have a big budget so what do you suggest. thanks ruben
I have been looking for a No-Salt softener (conditioner) and was about to purchase one of three different models. Easywater, Hydrocare or Pelican. Then I read where these no Salt conditioners really don’t work. I know that they really don’t soften the water but I am interested the the removal of scale and the preventing of it.
This morning I ran across this web site and heard about the Template Assisted Crystalization and that the Next Filtration Company used this process and that it works. I’m not sure about the name of that company. Anyway, does this process really work and do any of these companies use that proces?
Would appreciate your help.
Next Filtration has the only one that is Certified, Tested and Validated as being 99.6% efficient. The others have “testimonials” but no certifcation. There’s probably a reason why that is. In order to be certified, your product must demonstrate the ability to prevent scale by at least 80%. Could it be that they don’t reach that threshold? My tests indicate that is the case. Ask for proof! If a company can’t supply it or if they have some long story as to why they don’t … MOVE ALONG!
Bill,
I don’t know about the Hydrocare or Pelican systems, but I have an EasyWater and I have had a good experience with it.
I don’t know what you are looking to get out of a system, but I wanted to clean up the limescale buildup. It has done that. I have water pressure in my shower again and my dishwasher is cleaned out. I also have more suds in the shower than before and I’ve cut back on the amount of laundry soap I use. I did not have a salt-softener before so I don’t know how they compare, but compared to not having anything, the Easywater is great.
I know they have a 90-day money back guarentee too. I like mine, its done everything they said it would.
Erin,
What is your position at Freije (the manufacturer of Easy Water)? I did a IP address lookup of the computer you commented from and traced it to the Freije Company. That means that you are either an employee of Freije (Easy Water) or Freije paid you to post the above (well, either way you WERE paid). This testimonial is bogus!
See, this is what I have against such technology and companies who prey upon the unknowing masses with such products. I would advise everyone to beware of companies who make claims like this which have no scientific testing. If the product is so great, get it certified! Why don’t you submit some proof?
And while we are at it, the part about the suds in the laundry and shower is also bogus. I personally tested the water at the founder of Easy Water’s home and found that there was no difference between the suds of his treated and untreated water. I would be willing to bet that I could test your water too and you would not be able to tell the difference between the treated and untreated water.
By pretending you are a customer of Easy Water, you are deliberately misleading people at the least and engaging in deceptive sales practices at the worst! Why do you have to cheat to sell your product? I have seen your posts at other message boards - I haven’t commented there, but you can’t get away with it on my blog!
I also am turning this over to the Attorney General of Indiana to see if this violation warrants prosecution.
Mark,
When I was reading the testimonial from Erin, It sounded exactly like another one I read. I was thinking that perhaps she was posting this wherever she could. Then I read your reply and could not help but laugh. Nice catch! It is amazing to me that companies would stoop to such levels.
Thank you,
Steve
It is truly a shame that the company who sells this product constantly tells people that they are Christain and then resort to deception and lies. Jesus said that “by their works you will know them.” I guess we know what Easy Water is.
Marc,
I have already contacted Next Filtration after reading the above;however, I have been looking at a Salt Free AntiScale Water Softener called the Futura 10 by Apec. Are you familiar with this company and if so what do you think about them and their products? Appreciate your thoughts.
Derek
Derek,
This appears to be a “knockoff” and there are many, of the NEXT system. It probably uses FilterSorb which is an Anion-based resin and in our testing has not proven to be acceptable. It seems to have an effect by lowering the pH of the water in the initial stages, but looses it’s effectiveness very quickly.
I notice their website says: “Use 50% Less Detergents for Whiter or Brighter Clothes” - That is easily proven false: Put two 250 ml flasks of their treated and untreated water side-by-side and add 5 drops of pure soap. There will be no difference. If that’s not a true statement, what else is untrue?
How is the (TAC)Scale Stop Water Softener Alternative by Next Filtration Technologies different from their water softener. Which is better. What am I getting and what am I not? Any special conditions for instalation?
Are there other companies that use the TAC technology or is Next Filtration Technologies superior to the rest?
so what brand and size system do you recmd for my home 1500sqft 5 person live there.hope to get some in put this time.
Hi Mark,
Helpful blog. I’m curious now after reading your comments on nextscalestop. Any idea of the initial & subsequent operating costs? Will it help with other city water problems? My other option looks to be the Aquasana Rhino whole house system, but I don’t know if that will prevent scale buildup.
I have hard city water, and currently have just a cartridge filter, but can’t stand it any longer. Our water smells awful, like eggs…especially the hot. Cold water isn’t so bad, just leaves a yellowish gunk residue if left standing(toilet bowls etc). The water heater is electric, and was brand new summer ‘07, house was built in ‘00, so I don’t think it’s my pipes.
Part of my challenge is going to be finding a system that will take very little space. House is on slab, so only place to put system is in a coat closet where main water supply enters from outside. I’ve got about 18″ deep by 32″ wide footprint available to work with.
My other big concern is obviously budget. This stuff all adds up quick.
Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance,
Luke
Ruben,
We try and be impartial on this site, but a 10-12 GPM system should be sufficient. You might try UsWaterSystems.com
thank you very much for your input..
Mark :
I was looking for a anti-scale system, and so far I check in the web 3 brands: Pelican, Next scale-stop, and lately a new system from watts One flow, have you evaluated the pelican or the Watts??
I’m confused , because all of the three are expensive and I would like to make the best choice.
Regards!
I feel like I am going to get blasted by all of you in this forum but I must say I realy like my easy water - shoot me or call me stupid but it has done what it said it would. Eveyone is bashing it. I thought it sounded kind of stupid but my husband is all for new gadgets and so we figured why not. Out soft water system was on the fritz and the company gave a 90 day money back so we had nothing to loose. I din’t like the sales person when I called. he didn’t seem to know what he was talking about but they refered me to a plumber and they were really helpful. I had to get the 2000 because we have a tankless. Installed we paid about $1600 which I know is a lot more than replacing our soft water system but again I figured with the 90 days if it really worked then no more salt replacing which we always forgot and a lot more space gained in my strage room the thing is about the size of a thin shoe box. the wiring is kind of ugly but we will eventully get around to painting it the house color (no I am not returning it). We are really happy with it. My dishes aren’t crystal clear but they did say that there would still be spots. Our skin is still as soft as with the softener but without the slimy feeling - that was always my way of telling that we were out of salt because I would start itching right away. I don’t with this. I do have increased water pressure in one of my hall bathrooms and my clear shower doors in the master aren’t crusty from the overspray and steam. So if the science is bogus then so be it but my system is showing me exactly what they said it would.
just wondering what you think of kinetico?
I followed a link you gave, UsWaterSystems.com, and found the “Green Wave” Do you have any thoughts on this system. I have just bought a home that was built in 1980, the home had been empty for several months and the water had sediment and some rust when we turned on the sinks. We Do have galvanized pipes. Currently the water has cleared but still smells like metal. We move in in a couple of weeks and I really want to get something that is going to help my water situation. We are replacing toilets sinks and showers now and I don’t want to ruin the new fixtures. We know we have corrosion, but can not afford to plum the whole how at this point. Please advise!
Mark,
My mom is moving to an apartment. She’s extremely used to soft water. I’m glad to hear that nextscalesstop may be an option. Will the water still have the same “soft” feel that a traditional water softener gives?
Thanks!
Becky Bird said:
I feel like I am going to get blasted by all of you in this forum but I must say I realy like my easy water - shoot me or call me stupid but it has done what it said it would. Eveyone is bashing it. I thought it sounded kind of stupid but my husband is all for new gadgets and so we figured why not. Out soft water system was on the fritz and the company gave a 90 day money back so we had nothing to loose. I din’t like the sales person when I called. he didn’t seem to know what he was talking about but they refered me to a plumber and they were really helpful. I had to get the 2000 because we have a tankless. Installed we paid about $1600 which I know is a lot more than replacing our soft water system but again I figured with the 90 days if it really worked then no more salt replacing which we always forgot and a lot more space gained in my strage room the thing is about the size of a thin shoe box. the wiring is kind of ugly but we will eventully get around to painting it the house color (no I am not returning it). We are really happy with it. My dishes aren’t crystal clear but they did say that there would still be spots. Our skin is still as soft as with the softener but without the slimy feeling - that was always my way of telling that we were out of salt because I would start itching right away. I don’t with this. I do have increased water pressure in one of my hall bathrooms and my clear shower doors in the master aren’t crusty from the overspray and steam. So if the science is bogus then so be it but my system is showing me exactly what they said it would.
Becky,
I am assuming that you are also an employee of Easy Water posting from home, but we have just finished testing the Easy Water system, so I will respond to what I have found.
Easy Water is a RF Device, RF meaning radio frequency. Stated simply, the output from this device is a DC pulsed signal with a relatively high amperage - something like an amp at 15 volts. It generates a lot of heat which is why the case is metal.
As for what it does in the water - not a lot except to create a short lived magnetic field but it will stimulate corrosion big time. If there is any zinc in the system it will be quite effective as it will release zinc hydroxide as a nucleation seed. Once the zinc is all used up or when passivity sets in after a year or so, it will have very little effect on the scaling but it will continue to encourage corrosion so keep a bucket handy. If there is copper piping in the system you can expect to see green scale from the copper carbonate.
I would expect to find some customers who are quite impressed with the initial results but they won’t be so impressed when they find their plumbing starts leaking.
Lonojl wrote:
I was looking for a anti-scale system, and so far I check in the web 3 brands: Pelican, Next scale-stop, and lately a new system from watts One flow, have you evaluated the pelican or the Watts?? I’m confused , because all of the three are expensive and I would like to make the best choice.
Lonojl,
Insofar as I can tell, Pelican and Watts/Alamo use Filtersorb. Watts One Flow and next Scale-Stop are identical. Next Scale Stop is the better of the two in my opinion as it does not lower the pH like Filtersorb, however, Next Scale Stop is coming out with a new and imprived media, so I would wait on that revision.
Skip asked:
just wondering what you think of kinetico?
Skip,
Kinetico is not salt-free, but it is a good water softener. Somewhat overpriced but a good product backed by a network of dealers.
mk asked:
I followed a link you gave, UsWaterSystems.com, and found the “Green Wave” Do you have any thoughts on this system. I have just bought a home that was built in 1980, the home had been empty for several months and the water had sediment and some rust when we turned on the sinks. We Do have galvanized pipes. Currently the water has cleared but still smells like metal. We move in in a couple of weeks and I really want to get something that is going to help my water situation. We are replacing toilets sinks and showers now and I don’t want to ruin the new fixtures. We know we have corrosion, but can not afford to plum the whole how at this point. Please advise!
mk,
The only sure water to prevent scale and preserve fixtures is with a water softener that removes the calcium and magnesium and replaces it with sodium. If you do not want a salt-based conditioner, then the Green Wave or Lime Buster system will often help, as it uses pre-programmed micro-chips to transmit pulses of electrical charge into the water at varying frequencies and amplitudes. These “signals” cause some of the salts in the water to form sub-microscopic clusters. When the water is then heated, the clusters act as nucleation seeds upon which the calcium carbonate (limescale) precipitates. Instead of the hard encrustation on pipes and heating elements that normally occurs when water is heated, the precipitation takes the form of tiny calcium carbonate crystals that float suspended in the water. These invisible fine crystals are carried away with the flowing water. Unlike Easy Water which has a single antenna and uses Direct Current, the Green Wave (Lime Buster) uses Alternating Current at a much lower power level and does not cause corrision.
Sally asked:
My mom is moving to an apartment. She’s extremely used to soft water. I’m glad to hear that nextscalesstop may be an option. Will the water still have the same “soft” feel that a traditional water softener gives?
Sally,
I have a salt-based water softener as I like the “slick” feel of soft water. Not everyone does, but if your mother likes that feel too, she will not like the salt-free systems. Not one produces that slick feel and there will be little (if any) difference in soap usage, the dishwasher will leave spots and the clother will not be as bright or white! Companies that tell you otherwise are are not telling the truth!
we installed Easy Water and it has worked FANTASTIC for us, especially regarding our tankless water heater.
Mark–
This is a hugely helpful blog that seems to be reinforcing the conclusions that I was coming to (wish I had found it earlier). According to this site (http://www.waternet.com/articleprint.asp?print=1&IndexID=6636873), Watts is remarketing NextScaleStop under the OneFlow name, hence the absoultely identical test results being posted (that was a bit freaky until I could find the remarketing arrangement).
You mentioned “Next Scale Stop is coming out with a new and improved media, so I would wait on that revision”. Any idea when that might happen?
Thanks!
Leslie,
Good for you! If you have copper plumbing, be sure to keep a bucket handy!
Jim,
I hear they are testing it now.
My water is from a municipal well with a hardness of 26 grains. I would like to use a salt free system if I can but I am not sure as to which one you think works best. We have copper pipes and hot water heat which also uses copper pipes. The dishwasher leaves a film on the dishes and we get a lot of scum in the bath tub.
Is the NextScaleStop the only salt free solution that you would use?
If there are no viable salt free systems avaliable, what do think of EcoWater salt based systems?
Also, is it true that a whole house reverse osmosis system would damage the copper plumbing in our home?
Thank you!
mark,
I find your comment about my employment for easy water to be offensive and unprofessional. I spent months researching this product and asking those who actully had them what their opinions were. Not ONE person disliked theirs. My box is not metal it is plastic as is 6 other customers/family neighbors who have one. There is no heat that comes from it. If I have issues with it I have a 5 year warranty through the plumber that installed it. As I said before I like mine - only time will tell as to my pipes but I do find it interesting that the only critics are those that don’t have one.
Mark,
okay I’ve read your blog and have looked at this “salt-free” issue about as much as I am able to understand. Here’s my question;
Is your company’s MEP technology the same as TAC technology from Nextfiltration?
Are these the same products essentially? What’s the diff?
Thanks,
Matt
Becky,
I have had Easy Water Employees pose as customers before and their comments sound very much like yours. They do it on other sites too, not just here. If you are not an Easy Water Employee, then I apologize, but I am suspicious.
I do have an Easy Water (we have tested several) and if you are really a customer, prove that it works to yourself. Here’s how to do it. Put about a 1/2 inch of water in a pan and boil it dry. If the system works, you should be able to wipe the white deposit off the bottom of the pan with your finger.
If it’s not working, you will have to scrubb it or chemically remove it!
Let me know what you find out!
Matt,
Same technology!
Jeff,
1. Next is the only one we have tested that works the highest percentage of the time.
2. Ecowater softeners are fine - much the same as a Sears/Kenmore as they are made by the same company.
3. RO Water can indeed damage the copper if the TDS is too low. This can be easily solved with the addition of a “calcite” filter to add a little hardness back to the water in order to prevent leaching of copper.
thanks Mark,
Just so I’m clear. You, although extremely knowledgeable and generous to share your expertise, do in fact own or otherwise represent US Water right?
For the sake of argument, and please understand I am asking because as you are quick to point out, there are many scams and bogus claims out there; Why shouldn’t I be just as wary of your claims as any other company rep. pitching their product?
Could you clarify your situation, I apologize if you already have elsewhere on this site. Having an objective, expert opinion is something we laypeople depend on to make these choices with as much unbiased information as possible. You have debunked many false claims and probably saved many people thousands of dollars and yet I find myself confused after having visited US Water systems website.
Okay — nuff said. Hope you won’t take offense. Thanks for taking the time read.
Matt
P.S. has anyone had issues with water pressure loss with these systems?
Matt,
I do in fact, own US WATER. We have no affiliations and are OEM’s for GE/PENTAIR, WATTS, STENNER and a number of other manufacturers. We are also distributors for NextScaleStop and Water-Right. We are not like a Culligan or Kinetico dealer who has to sell ONE brand. My point is, that we have tried all the other brands (including Filtersorb, which is also made by Watts) and found that they do not work nearly as well. Additionally, Next is the only one with the DVWG-512 certification. It absolutely works (most of the time) and they are making improvements as we speak. There are NO pressure drop issues with the product.
On the US WATER website, we have “toned down” our claims because these products work most, but not all, of the time. It is a field of new technology and frankly, we don’t have all the answers as yet. I can say for a certainty that it works over 85% of the time and probably would be 100% if applied properly.
It is not a “cure all” for every problem as some companies claim.
No offense - I generally try not to be blantly self-promoting.
Mark,
thanks for your response. That makes things more clear for me. I appreciate you addressing my question.
It’s surprising to me that water conditioning is such a scam industry, I don’t know why I thought it would be any different than anything else, I just didn’t anticipate such out and out “Bunkery”
Thanks for you very helpful blog.
matt
I was considering purchasing a Salt-Free system and noticed you mentioned you have a salt based softener. May I know who you went with. My guess is you have a Kinetico because you asked someone what they think about it. If you did answer this question, forgive my oversight.
Thanks
One more question. What do you think of the nano technology salt free system by Pelican?
Mark,
you said you are a dealer for Next ScaleStop, however, the only product I see on your website is a filter cartridge for the 4 filter system. Don’t you offer the “whole house” residential system?
Please let me know, you have my email address.
I have a well and a septic system and don’t want to dump a bunch of brine into my septic or onto my land and am looking at the ScaleStop sytem to eliminate the water spots and build up on all the faucets, shower doors, etc.
My current water hardness is 7 degrees KH/ 120ppm/ about 7 grains if my conversion is correct.
I am looking at about 10- 12 GPM for water flow, even though my well can provide 40 GPM. I have a whole house fire sprinkler system, but I think I would install the water conditioner after the fire sprinkler system as it requires 40GPM when it goes off (hopefully never).
Thanks,
Derek
hi mark,
do you knnow how puronics purifex green technology conditions hard water? their no salt alternative is there clarius model…what are thoughts on this model? this company is certified with nsf…I did not see next scale or next filtration as certified with nsf.
thanks,
bryan
Jami,
Kinetico is a fine softener, but you can buy one every bit as good (maybe better) for about one-half the price at http://www.uswatersystems.com.
Pelican is a copycat of Next Scale Stop. Many companies are using it. The media is called Filtersorb, and is not nearly as effective as Next Scale Stop in my opinion. It is simply anion resin that drops thye pH of the water… temporarily!
Derek H,
If you do not have iron, manganese or hydrogen sulfide, the you might consider a salt-free system. Here is the link to our product:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/residential/sfwater.html
Bryan,
I know nothing about the Puronics Purifex (and I do keep up with the latest technology), so I assume it is some existing medias “re-packaged.” Knowing the company, I would be skeptical…
I will do some research!
Mark, how well does the Green Wave electronic descaler work compared to the Nexstop media?
Does the Nextstop media need a minimum flow rate to work? I heard the Watts oneflow needs at least 5gpm to be effective?
AJ,
HOw long do you anticipate before next media comes out with the new version of nextscalestop?
Mark,
First off, thanks for giving out information that is actually useful and not full of opinion. We’ve been living with 22gpg water for about five years and our dishwasher has finally thrown in the towel. The scale buildup is really the only issue we have with our water. I was researching salt-free systems, trying to determine which ones were bunk, when I found your blog.
It looks like Pelican Natursoft systems are no longer using Filtersorb. They actually tout their Natursoft media as being far superior to Filtersorb, capable of handling “up to 75gpg”. They have NFS certification and are in the process of getting DVGW testing competed. It looks like the upgraded system may be equivalent to SacleStop now (maybe). Some of their graphics on their website even look strikingly similar to those on nextfiltration (a little too similar).
Hello, Mark,
I have two questions:
1. After extensive search, I have narrowed my candidates for salt-free water treatment to three: SafeWater (www.no-salt.com), Catalytic 1000 (www.aquantum.com), and your recommendation (Next-scaleStop). Can you comment on the other two?
2. Can you tell me where to get a next-scalestop unit?
Thank you very much.
I understand that Nextscalestop is used in the GoGreen on the uswater site. But I do not see any certification as claimed here. Can you give us a link to this? thanks
AJ,
Maybe I should clarify, NSS is always improving their product. “New” may not be the appropriate word. “Improved” is probably more accurate and I understand that it is already so.
Chrism, Shizhong, Liz,
Pelican has been in the process of getting DVGW-512 for a year.
NSF certification is attainable for anyone who pays the fee and uses approved products(I don’t know where you would get “unapproved” products).
NSS is still the best best.
The MEP system at uswatersystems.com is the same technology.
Liz, if you want certification, you have to pay for NSS.
Shizhong,
Check out this website on Safewater and Catalytic 1000:
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/gallery.html
My opinion is that I waould run as fast and far from those products as I could.
They have no basis in science.
hi mark,
what are your thoughts on the wellness mg III model…looks like a good system but a little pricey.
thanks,
bryan
I just like to say, that it is nice to see some positive information on the web ( also helpful)
I own and operate a plumbing company in Canada
and I am researching salt less water softeners.
So far I found watts oneflow ( nextfiltration )
and I want to know if it actually works, I installed one in a residence that use to have a softener. Homeowners love it. I just seem alittle unsure if it works.
There is some bad info on the oneflow, this person states that it is impossible to do TAC
and wants more proof. He was a chemist
Wondering what you thought was a good product?
Thanks for your time
Mike
Bryan,
My advice is to RUN!
Mike Lammers,
Some people still believe that the world is flat.
TAC absolutely works, when applied properly.
It’s not a Black Box that cures everything.
Chemists are important, but often analyze until they are paralized.
TAC challenges the existing paradigm!
Mark,
What’s your take on HardnessMaster?
At the price, is it too good to be true?
They offer a 6 month return.
Their website:
http://www.equinox-products.com/HardnessMaster.htm
Thanks,
Mitch
We are also looking to go with a salt free system. Do you have any thoughts about LifeSource?
Terri,
Yes, I do and it may not be what you w \ant to hear.
They appear to use a granular activated cabon (GAC) tank with a large permanent magnet, which has NEVER been shown to be valid at any level. Any GAC tank will do the same as theirs at a fraction of the cost. Save your money, unless you are a shareholder…
Mitch,
Always be qwary of companys who offer just one product. It’s like a Doctor who uses the same medication to cure every malady. I would avoid it!
As part of my search for a salt free water softener, I came across a company names APEC Water Systems which sells a product named FUTURA, which is based on a TAC technology. I went through the Q&A above but could not see any mentioning to this product.
Are you familiar with this manufacturer/product? Could it be that they are an OEM manufacturer of some other company such as NextFiltration?
Here is a link to their web site: http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/saltfree10-water-softener.htm
Many thanks,
Shmuel
Dear Mark,
I am looking for a salt free system. I came across a TAC based system (as far as I understand the technology) named Futura by APEC Water Systems. What are your thoughts about this system? How efficient / good is it? Does it meet relevant standard?
Many Thanks,
Shmuel
I am currently looking for a filtration unit for my mother. I have worked in the businees both residentially and commercially, so I know I little bit about these systems and how they work, but by no means have your expertise. I would prefer her to have a salt-based softner and I would like to know what kind of resin your Vortex system uses. Is it a mixbed, or a seperate bed cation or anion? Also I would like to get a shower filter as I live in an apartment. Do you have any recommendations? Lastly, I really enjoyed working in this new field and would like to continue, but the companies I worked for were ripping people off charging them 6 and 7 thousand dollars for these systems. Do you know of any reputable companies in the South Carolina area that I might apply?
Thanks
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the excellent info on this blog site. We are on a well, with a variable-speed pump that provides from 25 to 35 gpm, and are looking for a salt-free system that will take care of water for our 2-person household, small new office building with on-demand hot water heater, and irrigation for ornamentals. Our problem is not taste, odor, or toxicity, but scale buildup on new fixtures we’ve recently had installed. We also have had pinhole leaks in our copper-plumbed 70’s house.
We had our water laboratory-tested several months after our new well was drilled in late 2006, and found:
TDS 240 mg/L, pH 7.19, hardness as CaCO3 at 170 mg/L. Sodium was at 17, magnesium at 14, calcium at 47, and sulfate as SO4 at 5.8 mg/L. Chloride was at 10, bicarbonate as CaCO3 was at 190, and total alkalinity was 190 mg/L. Manganese was at 130 ug/L. Iron was at a non-detectable level.
Is a next scale stop system appropriate for us? We like the taste and feel of our water as it is, but want to get rid of the staining and crusty buildup. We have been looking at the Freije system but after going through all the postings we are now having second thoughts. Thank you for your time reading this and answering us. We are located in California.
Shmuel wrote: “am looking for a salt free system. I came across a TAC based system (as far as I understand the technology) named Futura by APEC Water Systems. What are your thoughts about this system? How efficient / good is it? Does it meet relevant standard?”
Shmuel,
What I read on their site was very generic and their claims are somewhat suspect. I don’t know what they are using, but I don’t think it’s truly TAC!
Orlando wrote: am currently looking for a filtration unit for my mother. I have worked in the businees both residentially and commercially, so I know I little bit about these systems and how they work, but by no means have your expertise. I would prefer her to have a salt-based softner and I would like to know what kind of resin your Vortex system uses. Is it a mixbed, or a seperate bed cation or anion? Also I would like to get a shower filter as I live in an apartment. Do you have any recommendations? Lastly, I really enjoyed working in this new field and would like to continue, but the companies I worked for were ripping people off charging them 6 and 7 thousand dollars for these systems. Do you know of any reputable companies in the South Carolina area that I might apply?
Orlando,
Our Fusion Vortec system uses the highest quality premium cation-exchange resin with the best chlorine and iron resistanace. We also offer a Dual Media System which has 2 chambers - one for resin and one for carbon, to remove the chlorine for the entire house.
I know what you are saying about “ripping off” the people. Some water conditioning salesmen are 2 or 3 nothches below a used car salesman. Sad, but true!
Ruth wrote: Thanks for the excellent info on this blog site. We are on a well, with a variable-speed pump that provides from 25 to 35 gpm, and are looking for a salt-free system that will take care of water for our 2-person household, small new office building with on-demand hot water heater, and irrigation for ornamentals. Our problem is not taste, odor, or toxicity, but scale buildup on new fixtures we’ve recently had installed. We also have had pinhole leaks in our copper-plumbed 70’s house.
We had our water laboratory-tested several months after our new well was drilled in late 2006, and found:
TDS 240 mg/L, pH 7.19, hardness as CaCO3 at 170 mg/L. Sodium was at 17, magnesium at 14, calcium at 47, and sulfate as SO4 at 5.8 mg/L. Chloride was at 10, bicarbonate as CaCO3 was at 190, and total alkalinity was 190 mg/L. Manganese was at 130 ug/L. Iron was at a non-detectable level.
Is a next scale stop system appropriate for us? We like the taste and feel of our water as it is, but want to get rid of the staining and crusty buildup. We have been looking at the Freije system but after going through all the postings we are now having second thoughts. Thank you for your time reading this and answering us. We are located in California.
Ruth,
I did get you voice-mail and did what you asked)
The Freije system absolutely will not work for you, but before I answer, I need to know if you are getting black or brown stains?
Mark,
Thanks for the help here. After some research, I am considering US Water’s GoGreen no salt conditioner for my 10-year old 2-bath home to eliminate (or at least greatly reduce) scale build-up, and ask if you have any specific comments concerning my current system: Private well, 30 gpg hardness; galv steel tank w/bladder Merrill float delivering 55 psi pressure; Culligan iron/sulphur filtration; boiler serving radiant floor heat (PEX tubing in lightwieght conc) and also heats domestic hot water. The house has copper piping and already has 3/4″ connections w/by-pass ready for a softener. Your thoughts?
Scott,
It will work fine if all the iron (rust) is removed by the iron filtration system.
Mark,
Wondering if you could tell me which system would be the best for my problem. New home, the Well guy told me my water was a “little hard”, I find it awful. I can’t use my dishwasher because of white film on everything, tried reducing amt of detergent and tried different types but nothing helps. My shower doors are no longer clean looking and all my fixtures are spotted. The following is my analysis: PH 7.41, Calcium 90.2, Hardness 252, Iron .01, Magnesium 6.5, Manganese .01, Sodium 9.2, Chloride 105. Any thoughts?
Donna,
There really is no right answer, but here are a few facts:
1. Salt-Free Systems are not always a satisfactory solutions to hard water problems as they can be affected by heavy metals in the water, as well as iron, manganese, sulfates and other elements (some of these systems are completely bogus anyway). They also do not remove anything from the water, so they may not provide a complete solution in your home. For example, you may still get spots and a coating on your shower doors, but it should wipe-off easily, unlike untreated water where some chemical agent is required for removal. In the dishwasher, satisfactory results can usually be acheived with the use of a detergent such as Wal-Mart’s house brand and a product like “Jet-Dry.”
2. As people age, they don’t want to carry or worry about heavy salt bags for water softeners, and as people become more conscious of being “green,” they want to eliminate waste of water and the discharge of chlorides into the environment.
3. A salt-regenerated water softener will provide superior results in the dishwasher, shower and in the laundry, and will allow the consurmer to use less detergent, soaps, bleach, chemicals, fabric softeners and the like. That also saves the environment.
Is is better to use less soaps and detergents or no salt and not waste water? That probably depends upon your point of view.
That said, in your case, the manganese could affect the operation of the media over time, so you should probably have an oxidation filter ahead of a “no-salt” system, or a good water softener should solve your problems as well.
I am having the GreenWave TAC system installed soon in my new house. I will let everyone know what we find out regarding soap usage, and residual calcium oxalate. I imagine somewhere I will find some chalk like substance that is the Ca+ oxalate residue. I wish I could speak with someone who has a system already, but I trust the people I have met at US Water Systems here in Indianapolis.
Looks like this Mark guy has the only system in the world that works! Everyone else’s system is a ripoff. Kind of makes you wonder about Mark.
Is it possible to get performance data and more detailed specifications on the GreenWave No-Salt Water Conditioning & Chlorine/Chemical Removal System? How does that Chlorine/Chemical Removal System differ from US Water Systems Hydro-Clean Backwashing Filter in terms of what is removed by the system? Thank you very much.
Why are more companies using Filtersorb SP3 than the TAC technology?
Jason said:
Looks like this Mark guy has the only system in the world that works! Everyone else’s system is a ripoff. Kind of makes you wonder about Mark.
Jason,
First of all, never bring a knife to a gun fight!
Maybe you don’t read English, but I have not said that I have the only one that works. I have said that I had the only one that had passed the DVGW-512. I also take substance over style because many systems being sold today make claims that are ambigious or have no basis in fact. A 9th grade chemistry student can figure that out.
If you have something intelligent with some substance, then I’ll consider it, but your one-line drive by “shootings” are unintelligent drivel!
Maggie asked:
Why are more companies using Filtersorb SP3 than the TAC technology?
Maggie,
First of all, Filtersorb and TAC technology are very different, and I have sold and tested several Filtersorb systems. They also appear to work, but I am not yet ready to say that they work at the level of TAC. I will have an answer in another six months. It appears promising, however they have not passed DVGW-512.
The reason more companies use Filtersorb is simply because it appears they will sell to anyone who has a pulse, and nextScaleStop is very selective in the distribution of their product. Filtersorb is also cheaper (that may be the main reason).
I will post information on the carbon filters in a couple of days.
You say that a TAC filtration system should be certified, tested, and validated using DVGW-12 protocal. Is this government testing? Does anyone know what Consumer Reports has to say about all this? We are building a home–we are in a rural water district. The water analysis is as follows: The following is my analysis: PH 7.9, Calcium 67, Iron .036, Magnesium 31, Manganese .005, Sodium 97, Chloride 130. Any thoughts? We are retired and can’t afford to over-buy.
Mark,
Just an observation that is all. No need to go on the attack with direct insults towards my intellect. I am not looking for any type of fight. Just my observation. Easy!
Day 3 after installation of my GreenWave salt free water conditioner.
Shower-I work nights, and last night I saw what looked like scale on my shower door. It is a brand new house, with new everything, so everything stands out. I wiped my finger over what looked like scale, and it just dissappeared. It was definetly not scale, not even close. I figure I will be wiping my shower down every week or so with a wash cloth, should take 5 minutes tops. I want to stress that you had to look really close to see anything at day 3.
Dishwasher-We have upgraded appliances, but WOW! No streaks or anything, and this si without rinse agent. The older glasses look almost new after I ran them through x2.
Taste-Definetly different, but this is due to the pre-carbon unit, I’m sure. I also had an RO system installed. It is a thing of beauty.
Water feel-OK, my wife and I both agree something is different. We think the water has some conflicting properties. There is no slimy film, in fact just the opposite. The water seems to rinse the soap off SUPER FAST. Hair feels squeakly clean after one wash.
I will write more at a later date, but so far I am really pleased with GreenWave’s TAC system.
Greg Hilliard
Plainfield IN
Mark, To my understanding the TAC filtration will eliminate(drastically reduce) the scale buildup. To eliminate chlorine from my city water and to filter out bacteria also I would need a second unit to accomplish this. Is there a single salt-free unit that will do this?
Thanks for your help
Steve
Mark -
I have read about how salt systems are bad for your health by ingesting higher than normal sodium levels (see: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317). Any validity in these claims? This is why we are thinking of a salt-free system, but I dont want to waste money on a non-performer. I am from Baton Rouge, where the water was extremely soft. Our newly constructed home in NC left us with a private well that tested Ca+/Mg+ at 854 ppm (about 50 gpg). No iron.
We have 6 full baths and 2 1/2 baths. Any suggestion to what is best for our needs? Salt vs. non-salt? Someone said Rain soft was the best, but they were very expensive ( ~ $5,000).
What are your thoughts/suggestions?
Thanks for letting us pick your brain.
Steve wrote:
Mark, To my understanding the TAC filtration will eliminate(drastically reduce) the scale buildup. To eliminate chlorine from my city water and to filter out bacteria also I would need a second unit to accomplish this. Is there a single salt-free unit that will do this?
Steve,
Our Green Wave systems include a carbon filter to remove the clorine and chemicals. It’s all included in the system.
Thomas wrote:
I have read about how salt systems are bad for your health by ingesting higher than normal sodium levels (see: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/sodium/AN00317). Any validity in these claims? This is why we are thinking of a salt-free system, but I dont want to waste money on a non-performer. I am from Baton Rouge, where the water was extremely soft. Our newly constructed home in NC left us with a private well that tested Ca+/Mg+ at 854 ppm (about 50 gpg). No iron.
We have 6 full baths and 2 1/2 baths. Any suggestion to what is best for our needs? Salt vs. non-salt? Someone said Rain soft was the best, but they were very expensive ( ~ $5,000).
What are your thoughts/suggestions?
Thanks for letting us pick your brain.
Thomas,
Rainsoft would be my choice if there were no other companies. In other words, you can do a lot better than that!
1. You don’t have to drink salt-softened water. Even though it doesn’t have high amounts of sodium, it may nOt taste good. A REVERSE OSMOSIS SYSTEM REMOVES THE SODIUM, AS WELL AS A PLETHORA OF OTHER CHEMICALS.
2. I would like to see a detailed water analysis before I answer.
Jason,
You can disagree all you want, but you get what you give…
It may be an observation, but it was the type that questions the integrity of a person.
Do that and you will get what you give.
Greg Hillard,
Keep up the posts. Everyone will appreiate your comments and this is really making history!
Mark,
What say you to Pelican’s claim of now being DVGW certified and their further claim of being the only US Manufacturer with that type of certification for the prevention of scale?
Below is the quote from their website:
Update Sept 30th, 2008: Pelican has completed third-party testing through DVGW certified lab to DVGW W 512 standards for the prevention of scale buildup. Pelican is now the only US Manufacturer with this type of performance testing for the prevention of scale.
With this certification do you now feel that they are a viable salt-free solution to water treatement?
Thanks,
Bill
Here is link to additional information on TAC from the same site you already mentioned earlier.
http://www.chem1.com/CQ/catscams.html
Just FYI.
Thanks
William Grobman,
I did not find what you stated. Can you post the link?
Jason,
That website is very useful and I refer to it but do not agree with all that he says. Dissent is good.
[...] http://www.askthewaterdoctor.com/2007/12/salt-free-water-softeners/ [...]
Mark,
Here’s the link to the mention on Pelican’s website of DVGW-512. I’m interested in your thoughts here as well, as I know you had mentioned a couple times that the absence of this certification was your main objection to the Natursoft product.
http://www.pelicanwatertechnologies.com/natursoft_certification.php
Thanks,
Taylor
Taylor,
It is NOT certified by DVGW-512. Here’s what says: “Pelican has completed third-party testing through DVGW certified lab to DVGW W 512 standards for the prevention of scale buildup. Pelican is now the only US Manufacturer with this type of performance testing for the prevention of scale.”
Why did they go third party testing? Maybe I can get an answer. Actually, I know the answer, but want confirmation. Stay tuned!
Taylor,
After further review, I think what the website says is very sleazily worded.
It says that they have “completed testing“. Period. Nothing is said about ‘Passing” the test, but the casual reader will infer that the product “passed” the test. While it is technically true that they have completed testing (I have heard that they had been in testing for over a year on a 3 week test), it gives a completely false impression because I see no certification as a result of the testing.
Using that same rationale, nextScaleStop could go ahead and say that it is now a cure for cancer, a miracle weight-loss aid, heals warts and ulcers and makes bald men grow a full head of hair!
Read carefully . . This statement is like those used by some of the sleazy shower filter folks. They “completed” the test. They didn’t “pass” the test. Important distinction.
Mark,
Thank you for your answers. I am looking for a salt-free system to reduce my scale buildup. My well water is very hard, but perfect in all other aspects.
I was leaning towards filtersob media type system, until I found your website. Your system (TAC / MEP) claims almost everything the same as FILTERSOB except for that one certification you keep repeating.
Can you tell me what is the media that TAC systems use?
I know that FILTERSOB is a type of media that can be purchased when it “gets used”. Nothing lasts forever. TAC system uses what media and can you supply a link to purchasing that media?
If not, I would never purchase such system, as it only guarantees its media for 2 years. What do I do after two years? Buy a whole new unit?
Jerry
Jerry,
It is very confusing for consumers right now as there are all types of claims and contradictory information by numerous companies. First of all, I am a distributor for Watts Water who sells ScaleNet which uses Filtersorb. We have tested Filtersorb and found that it is not nearly the equal of the TAC media.
By the way, the TAC media is replaced just like the Filtersorb media, so there is no need to buy a new system. The media costs about $270 for the average system.
I can only say that the Filtersorb media is very different from the TAC media.
Here’s the link on how it works: http://nextfiltration.com/DownloadFiles/next-ScaleStop-SysLit-res.pdf
Here’s the DWGW-512 Certification:
http://www.wefixbadwater.com/pdf/DVGW%20report.pdf
The science behind it:
http://www.wefixbadwater.com/pdf/Scale%20Stop%20Science%20SF.pdf
Industry article on TAC:
http://www.wefixbadwater.com/pdf/Feb%2007%20TAC%20Article.pdf
As a side point, Watts Industries, which is the parent company of Watts Water has taken on the TAC media instead of Filtersorb in for there world-wide sales. Watts Industries is a $1.5 billion company. Watts Water is $50 million.
TAC is far superior to Filtersorb in my opinion, and they actually have PROOF that it works, not just their own claims.
Mark, Are you the same “Water Doctor” that is trashed in the “Bunkhouse” website?
(http://www.chem1.com/CQ/wonkywater.html#ENERGIZED)
The photo on his site and yours look similar (except maybe for an age difference). However what the chemist writes doesn’t seem to ring true, I didn’t see any references to health benefits or “Quanta Water” or other such nonsense on your or the US Water Sys. sites. Seems to be a rather unfounded vicious attack.
My search to find a saltless water conditioner has been extremely frustrating, don’t know whom to believe. So far the TAC system seems to be the best possibility. Or maybe I should use a conventional salt softener. (I’m on a well)
No offense intended to anyone.
Jerry,
That’s not me. I have no clue who that guy is.
It is very confusing. Look, salt-free systems are not a cure-all and any site that only sells ONE PRODUCT is suspect in my opinion. Water has many different properties and variations - no one solution applies.
To date, I am not a big fan of salt-free systems on wells.
What is your water analysis? Iron, Hardness, PH, TDS, Manganese, etc.
Thanks, Mark
I guess I need to have my water tested. My well is in limestone and shale along Conns Creek south of Waldron. My neighbor has hardness > 20g.
Hi Mark,
Thank you for answering my questions. I am “Jerry” not to get confused with “Jerry D” that is posting similar questions at the same time
If I may, I’d like to pick your brain again. No one seems to be able to answer my question. I have a private well system. When I purchased the house about 3 years ago I knew I need to address the water issue. There was no filter and/or softener at all. I had my water tested and it “passed” all state drinking water regulations (state of Massachusetts). However there is a very high visible corrosion of piping (white & green residue). I had to replace most of my copper piping and one good quality faucet is gone in 2.5 years! Also, my shower base (acrylic) is getting constantly aqua color (bluish/greenish). When I do my own hardness test it shows water to be about 80ppm.
Here are my results from a professional independent testing company:
Coliform Absent
Fecal/E. Coli Absent
Sodium 284.4 mg/L
Potassium 4.5 mg/L
Copper 0.25 mg/L
Iron 0.05 mg/L
Manganese 0.02 mg/L
Magnesium 3.2 mg/L
Calcium 18.4 mg/L
Arsenic Not Detected
Lead Not Detected
pH 5.79 SU
Turbidity 0.20 N.T.U.
Color Not Detected
Odor Not Detected
Conductivity 1516.0 umhos
T.D.S. 909.6 mg/L
Sediment Absent
Alkalinity 45.0 mg/L
Chlorine Not Detected
Chloride 520.1 mg/L
Hardness 59.1 mg/L
Nitrate 5.1 mg/L
Nitrite Not Detected
Ammonia Not Detected
Sulfate 44.3 mg/L A
My water “looks” great, has no smell, tastes great. Do you think salt-free softener can fix my corrosion problems?
Sincerely,
Jerry
Mark,
I would really like to find a decent non-salt water conditioner/filter..
I was looking at Pelican till I read your reviews…and looked at Nextgen…but my local plumber said they carry gentec?? or gentek?? do you know this brand??
or should I have them find me nextgen??
Here are my water params…
Hardness 17
pH 7.8
Iron ND
Sodium 50
Chloride 86
Magnesium 31
Boron .118
Molybdenum .0015
Strontium 46
Silica 6.9
Thanks
George
Continuation from Nov 3rd…
Hey all,
I am going to perform a little experiment with my new water. I purchased a TAC system Oct 30th. Just a little background first; I am an MT (ASCP). That is Medical Technologist certified by the American Society of Clinical Pathology. I have worked in the clinical lab for about 15 years. I plan to take a sample of my TAC water, and spin it down at 6000 rpm for 20 minutes. I will then carefully remove the supernatant, and place a drop on slide, stain it with Wright stain and try to observe calcium carbonate crystals. I see ca+ carbonate and ca+ oxalate crystals all the time. Carbonate look like small dumbbells, while oxalate look like squares with a retractile cross in the middle. Since I have the equipment at my disposal, I thought why not share my observations. More to follow….Greg
Sorry as a follow up….here is what else is in our water..
Arsenic (ppb) 8
Barium 22
Chromium 52
Fluoride 0.6
Nickel 1.5
Nitrate 4.48
Selenium 3
Lead 8
Copper .185
I also so mentioned the Greenwave TAC system..
Please recommend what you think would work best with my water Params…
Thanks
Geo
Jerry,
In a word - NO!
You need to raise your pH to above 7.0. You would do this one of two ways:
1. Calcite filter; or
2. Injection of Soda Ash.
Geo,
The Green Wave with the TAC media should do a fine job in preventing scale and the carbon filtration should also remove/reduce some chemicals. If it were me, I would still have a good reverse osmosis system for drinking.
On the other hand, things like Boron and Strontium can be reduced by ion-exchange softening. An ion-exchange water softener with dual-media (carbon and resin) would also do a fine job, along with a reverse osmosis system.
I am having a problem with buildup on fixtures from the water softener. Is it a problem with the settings, the type of salt, or is this just normal. I have copper pipes through most of the house (1983) and am concerned what effects the salt from the water softener may occur.
Thank you.
I will need to have some more information with regards to your water quality. Is the water soft coming out of the softener? Have you checked both the hot and cold side?
hi Mark I am looking to by a non salt water system to reduce scaling. My water comes from the city but some of the city water comes from a well. i read your recommendation for the tac system but I do not know who seels it in south orange county california can you help. thanks
Yvette,
Here’s the link:
http://www.uswatersystems.com/residential/greenwaveTAC.html